This conversation took place December 17, 2025. It has been edited from the original conversation for length and flow.
Ben Odell:
I wanted to give you some context, because you sort of come to me through a couple of different places. I’m a legacy producer. I’ve produced around 30 movies and a bunch of TV series. I’ve been obsessed with the creator economy for a long time. Years ago, I used to hang out at Maker Studios, and it was just this fascinating place, because they were actually making things while we were in Hollywood pitching movies and waiting two years to get them made if we were lucky. So I was always kind of fascinated by it, but I could never quite figure out the move for me.
In the last few years, I really started to see the inevitability of it. I also realized that for the creator economy to keep growing, it was going to have to converge in some way with the legacy business. There’s just no way around it. The need to scale and the structural needs were always going to start pulling from legacy in a lot of ways. And over the last year, it’s been happening fast. Watching legacy producers move into the space, creators changing how they operate on platforms, Netflix buying podcasts, and so on.
So I started this Substack called Open Gardens. That really came from a conversation I had with a VC in Silicon Valley who told me my business was a walled garden, that the walls had been breached, and that it was going to fall quickly. He literally said, “We’re all fucked.” That was kind of the jumping-off point for launching Open Gardens and really obsessing over every corner of how things are changing.
And in my travels, like anybody who pays attention to the creator economy, I listen to Colin and Samir’s podcast. I heard Anthpo on there and was just fascinated by that whole story and everything he was doing. It felt really creative and interesting.
The other thing is, in the Substack, I teach at Columbia University. I teach a course about convergence and how film students can actually have a career now, because it’s increasingly not about going to Hollywood anymore. I bring in people like Sean Atkins, Jim Louderback, Neil Waller, and others, interview them, and give guidance on how to navigate that world. I also use my Columbia students to help write the Substack, because we produce a lot of content. One of them said, “We should do something on everyone who’s graduated from MrBeast and gone on to do other things.” I loved that story, because it feels like the mailroom from the old days. That’s where I saw your name and read about you. And once I realized you two were connected, I had to reach out. And in the spirit of the creator economy, people are just so open, which is the opposite of Hollywood.
Talia Schulhof:
Yeah, that’s awesome. The mailroom analogy really rings true. It’s funny, because I actually considered going into the mailroom right out of college, but instead I took a chance on MrBeast. And I’m really glad that I did. If I had gone to the mailroom at UTA, WME, or CAA, I’d probably still be on an assistant desk right now.
Choosing to be on the ground floor of something like that, arguably the biggest creator in the world, opened so many doors for me. At the time, a lot of my peers and even my family were a little doubtful of what it would lead to, or what it even was. My grandparents still don’t know what I did in North Carolina for a year. It’s not even worth trying to explain. I just tell them, “I get a check.”
Ben Odell:
No, I get that. I know this guy Scott Brown, who worked there for a while as a field producer. He was only there for six months, but he got insane experience. He produced the “train goes into the big hole” video. One producer, having to figure out how to dig a hole, what equipment to use. It’s real producing. Honestly, producers on Mission: Impossible don’t know how to do that. I brought him in to talk to film students because it’s a great example of what producing actually looks like.
What’s fascinating is that the creator economy teaches different things depending on where you’re positioned, and it sends people in a lot of different directions. As I started digging into Pufferfish, I kept thinking, “This is really cool.” There was a Wired cover story maybe 15 years ago about a marketing studio in San Francisco doing viral videos. None of this is entirely new. It just keeps iterating.
I remember reaching out to them back then, because I do a lot of work in Latin America, and I thought, “Let’s launch a Latin American version of this.” It was all about grabbing attention in interesting ways.
What fascinates me now is this new wave of marketing companies. Entertainment has always been adjacent to marketing. Directors move between both worlds. But now you see managers partnering with Gen Z creators to launch agencies. One guy told me he partnered with a creator just to anchor the business and bring brands in. The creator isn’t even in the videos.
So for you, when you launched this, what was the underlying principle?
Talia Schulhof:
It was a long time coming. I always knew I wanted to build something of my own. Ever since I was a kid, I wanted to work for myself. I’m a control freak. I have strong opinions, and I see myself as a leader. In every role I’ve had, even as an intern, I took initiative.
I met Anthony while working at MrBeast. After I left, I started producing for him freelance while I was working another job. I produced his “Bachelor” video. We invited 20 Hinge dates to the same place at the same time and turned it into a dating show. We took them to a mansion and went fully into the format. We even brought in the Vanity Fair lie detector guy to test the final contestants. It was very fun.
I also produced his collaboration with PinkPantheress earlier this year. We share a really similar outlook. I’m more of the producer brain. Anthony is a visionary creative savant with years of experience as a creator. I’ve always been behind the scenes, uplifting other creators and working across niches. I’ve worked with MrBeast, Jordan Matter, TV shows, skincare brands. A lot of different audiences.
After Anthony went on Colin and Samir, he started getting around 100 inbound emails a day from brands. He realized that what brands wanted wasn’t just an ad read or a TikTok. They wanted full-scale campaigns. He couldn’t support that on his own, and he didn’t want all his content to be branded. So he reached out to me and said, “I need help. Let’s build a company.” He’d be the face and the sales engine, and I’d run it.
That’s what we did. He’s CCO, I’m CEO. We’re co-founders. We’ve been building since August, and it’s been great so far. Our first campaign was the Airlearn billboards that said “Kock,” “Dik,” and “Pussi.”
Ben Odell:
By the way, I saw one of those in New York. I didn’t know the connection.
Talia Schulhof:
Which one?
Ben Odell:
“Kock.”
Talia Schulhof:
That one’s right near our office, on 36th between Fifth and Sixth. I think it’s still there. We paid for two weeks, but they don’t take it down unless someone else buys the space. So we really got a good bang for our buck.
Since then, we’ve had a lot of inbound and started working with some dream brands. I knew going in that it was going to be hard, but I imagined constant sales, not constant inbound that I’m having to field. It’s a good problem.
Anthony is really the public persona. It’s a flywheel. His independent projects draw attention, but they’re not branded. Any brand that wants to work with us gets sent our way, and then we apply the same playbook. We’re aligned creatively.
I’ve done viral work myself. I used to run a daily pop culture trivia show in New York called Hollywood IQ. We definitely have different strengths. I’m more business-minded. Anthony is just a pure creative savant. Me coming in to operationalize everything was a good move for both of us.
Ben Odell:
It’s fascinating that the Colin and Samir podcast was the catalyst, because it feels like in the creator economy, you just have to go do things and see what happens. Opportunities get created that way. You have to trust your gut.
From what I read, Anthony also realized he couldn’t be the center of everything, and started creating concepts that were anonymous. The Crocs thing, for example. That feels essential for scale. The minute you’re tied to one creator or celebrity, you have limitations.
So when you start building infrastructure, who’s your first hire beyond assistants? Who do you need first?
Talia Schulhof:
It’s hard to say. I’m a first-time founder. I’ve worked at startups before, and right now we just need do-everything people. Eventually we’ll specialize, but right now everything’s needed.
Our first hire was creative ops. CJ. He’s been with us since August. Anthony and I both believe that, at least for now, everyone on the team should be creative. They should be able to produce and edit. CJ knows After Effects. CJ and I designed the billboards ourselves in Illustrator. He helps build systems in Notion and Google Docs.
We need to hire more people because there are a lot of projects coming in. I’m not totally sure who those people are yet, but probably creative producers. People who take initiative, who don’t need a lot of hand-holding, who learn fast.
We have a lot of young people on the team. College grads, students, people who’ve worked with Anthony before. I love working with young creatives. They’re at the cutting edge, and that’s irreplaceable. But I do think we’re still in a moment where the creator economy isn’t fully respected because the people in it are so young.
Ben Odell:
What was your first job out of college?
Talia Schulhof:
MrBeast.
Ben Odell:
So you probably get asked all the time what you learned there. But what did you learn that you left behind?
Talia Schulhof:
I learned the potential of the creator space very early. When I took the MrBeast job, I agonized over whether to go traditional or go there. They paid for my housing. I had graduated early. They shipped my car down for a three-month trial. It just made sense. And then I stayed.
After a while, I realized this was where I needed to be. How often do you get the chance to be at the ground floor of something that feels like the cutting edge of film or television? Why would I start somewhere long-established and claw my way up when I was already in a position to grow quickly?
I learned the power of scrappiness. Exhaust every option. I learned about retention, metrics, and viewer psychology. Just because something is good to you doesn’t mean it’s good to everyone. You have to think about every single view.
But I also learned how much pressure there is when your self-worth gets tied to numbers. That drives me crazy. I spend too much time refreshing notifications instead of thinking bigger. I resent that about myself.
Ben Odell:
It sounds like creativity comes first for you. You’re not starting with “How do I get a billion people?” You’re starting with the idea.
Talia Schulhof:
Yeah. I think the value of a view is different now. The word “viral” has lost meaning. We use it to describe a MrBeast video and a bakery croissant that 1,000 people know about. Those are completely different things.
MrBeast is viral at a scale that’s different from something like the Timothée Chalamet look-alike contest, which permeated culture. My grandma heard about that.
I think focusing on sheer numbers versus making people feel something is a real tension. You can resonate deeply with one person, and that can outweigh resonating shallowly with 100. The numbers don’t reflect that.
Everyone has their own niche internet celebrity. Things that were viral to them. That matters.
Ben Odell:
Right. The Chalamet contest just brought joy. Not to pick on MrBeast, but the loudness can cancel itself out. It’s the difference between trying to win and trying to connect.
You were at MrBeast for a year. What was your title?
Talia Schulhof:
Creative Strategist on the vertical platforms team.
Ben Odell:
How did you get hired straight out of college?
Talia Schulhof:
It was my first W2 job, but I worked in the creator space all through college. During lockdown, I built a TikTok following of about 250,000. I never committed to a niche, so I didn’t build a fanbase, but I knew how to get attention. I made viral sounds, pop culture videos, videos of my parents.
I interned at Palette, worked at McCann, and at a boutique agency working with NBC. I helped grow Chucky’s TikTok to a million followers in two months.
Ben Odell:
How did you do that?
Talia Schulhof:
It was season two, so there was an existing fanbase. I tapped into Stan culture. I made a list of Chucky stan accounts and interacted with them. They rallied their communities. Chucky’s a CGI puppet hybrid, so I could manipulate the mouth to match TikTok audios. People thought it was CGI. It was just editing. It was silly and raunchy, and people loved it.
Ben Odell:
Hollywood still doesn’t get that. Communities need to be fed between seasons.
If you were given the chance to build community for a show, what do you think studios get wrong?
Talia Schulhof:
They’re risk-averse. They want references and data. But sometimes you’re trying to be the reference. Airlearn trusted us completely. Not many brands would put “pussi” on a billboard.
Ben Odell:
Risk-taking feels like your brand.
Talia Schulhof:
It is, but there’s still a balance. Sometimes you earn trust first, then push further.
Ben Odell:
What are your best case studies beyond the billboards?
Talia Schulhof:
We ran a campaign for a sauce brand where the label promised a personal apology video if you didn’t like it. People emailed in and got videos of the founder crying. We seeded it with a plant. It worked because it was funny and vulnerable.
Ben Odell:
That vulnerability creates narrative.
One thing I keep coming back to is this: how do legacy systems adapt when the internet builds audiences iteratively, but TV and film don’t know who their audience is until after launch?
Talia Schulhof:
You don’t know. You put things out and see. Similar projects aren’t your project. Risk is unavoidable.
Ben Odell:
Starting with $8 million an episode feels like starting on the Titanic.
Talia Schulhof:
I don’t think TV or film is dead. It just has to evolve. There have always been failures.
Ben Odell:
I agree. It’s becoming a smaller piece of a bigger ecosystem. Everything’s converging.
All right. Thank you for your time.
Talia Schulhof:
Thank you so much.